Legislature(1999 - 2000)

03/22/1999 05:05 PM House FSH

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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                   JOINT MEETING                                                                                                
        HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES                                                                                    
    HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                     
                         March 22, 1999                                                                                         
                           5:05 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bill Hudson, Chairman                                                                                            
Representative Fred Dyson                                                                                                       
Representative Carl Morgan                                                                                                      
Representative Mary Kapsner                                                                                                     
Representative Harold Smalley                                                                                                   
Representative Andrew Halcro, Co-Chairman                                                                                       
Representative Lisa Murkowski                                                                                                   
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Jim Whitaker                                                                                                     
Representative John Harris                                                                                                      
Representative Albert Kookesh                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
OTHER MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Alan Austerman                                                                                                   
Representative Carl Moses                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
OVERSIGHT HEARING:  WESTERN ALASKA FISHERIES DISASTER                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PAT POLAND, Director                                                                                                            
Division of Municipal and Regional Assistance                                                                                   
Department of Community and Regional Affairs                                                                                    
333 West Fourth Avenue, Suite 220                                                                                               
Anchorage, Alaska  99501-2341                                                                                                   
Telephone:  (907) 269-4580                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on the Western Alaska fisheries                                                                   
                    disaster.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CAROL CARROLL, Director                                                                                                         
Administrative Services Division                                                                                                
Department of Military and Veterans Affairs                                                                                     
400 Willoughby Avenue, Suite 500                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska  99811                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 465-4730                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on the Western Alaska fisheries                                                                   
                    disaster.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DIANA ALCANTRA, Recovery Manager                                                                                                
Division of Emergency Services                                                                                                  
Department of Military and Veterans Affairs                                                                                     
P.O. Box 5750                                                                                                                   
Fort Richardson, Alaska  99505-5750                                                                                             
Telephone:  (907) 428-7000                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on the Western Alaska fisheries                                                                   
                    disaster.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DOUG EGGERS, Chief Fisheries Scientist                                                                                          
Division of Commercial Fisheries Management                                                                                     
   and Development                                                                                                              
Alaska Department of Fish and Game                                                                                              
P.O. Box 25526                                                                                                                  
Juneau, Alaska  99802-5526                                                                                                      
Telephone:  (907) 465-6117                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on the Western Alaska fisheries                                                                   
                    disaster.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
TOM KRON, Arctic-Yukon-Kuskokwin Regional Supervisor                                                                            
Division of Commercial Fisheries Management                                                                                     
   and Development                                                                                                              
Alaska Department of Fish and Game                                                                                              
333 Raspberry Road                                                                                                              
Anchorage, Alaska  99518-1599                                                                                                   
Telephone:  (907) 267-2166                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on the Western Alaska fisheries                                                                   
                    disaster.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
TAPE(S)                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
99-6, SIDE(S) A & B                                                                                                             
99-7, SIDE(S) A                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN BILL HUDSON AND CO-CHAIRMAN ANDREW HALCRO called the joint                                                             
meeting between the House Special Committee on Fisheries and the                                                                
House Community and Regional Affairs Standing Committee meeting to                                                              
order at 5:05 p.m.  Present at the call to order from the House                                                                 
Special Committee on Fisheries were Representatives Hudson, Dyson,                                                              
Morgan and Smalley.  Present at the call to order from the House                                                                
Community and Regional Affairs Standing Committee were                                                                          
Representatives Halcro, Morgan and Joule.  Representative Murkowski                                                             
arrived at 5:08 p.m.  Representative Kapsner arrived at 5:09 p.m.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY OF INFORMATION                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
PAT POLAND, Director, Division of Municipal and Regional                                                                        
Assistance, Department of Community and Regional Affairs (DCRA),                                                                
explained the role his division played in working with communities                                                              
and administering a grant program.  He noted that, in July of 1997,                                                             
in recognizing that the season was a disaster in Bristol Bay and                                                                
the Yukon-Kuskokwin area, Governor Knowles declared a disaster that                                                             
encompassed 51 communities and included 2 organized boroughs.  The                                                              
Department of Community and Regional Affairs was given the                                                                      
responsibility of coordinating state agencies in responding to the                                                              
disaster, and Mr. Poland explained how the various departments and                                                              
agencies were organized.  He reported the state submitted a request                                                             
to the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to declare a                                                                  
national disaster for federal assistance; however, that was                                                                     
ultimately denied.  In the fall of 1997, United States Senator Ted                                                              
Stevens secured about $7 million in federal Magnuson-Stevens                                                                    
Fisheries Disasters Funds.  This is the first time a disaster has                                                               
been applied to that fund, so it was a learning experience for                                                                  
everyone involved.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. POLAND explained that there was a match requirement for that                                                                
federal money.  Through the legislative process, it was decided                                                                 
that the match should come from local communities.  He reported                                                                 
that the federal directive associated with this fund was to                                                                     
identify labor-intensive projects in the communities, which was                                                                 
accomplished in the majority of the communities.  It has been a                                                                 
major struggle, however, for these small villages to come up with                                                               
matching funds; consequently, no projects were going on in May and                                                              
June of 1998.  At that time, the 1998 fish disaster started to                                                                  
become evident.  The Governor advised the legislature of their                                                                  
option to come into special session, and, as a function of that                                                                 
declaration, he was able to access disaster funds.  Mr. Poland                                                                  
stated that a portion of those funds were used as a match for the                                                               
community grants to begin projects last summer.  He said,                                                                       
"Unfortunately, by that point we are so late into the construction                                                              
season in rural Alaska that, if projects literally aren't ready and                                                             
if the materials aren't sitting there, chances of getting things                                                                
going again are pretty slim.  So, we lost close to a second                                                                     
construction season."  He felt that approximately 30 to 40 of the                                                               
projects had some activity.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. POLAND reported that all of the projects were articulated and                                                               
ready to go by the fall of 1998, in terms of an actual grant                                                                    
agreement with the communities.  Subsequent to that, the match was                                                              
not approved by the legislature, so DCRA is again working with                                                                  
communities and with the federal government.  He observed that DCRA                                                             
is cautiously optimistic that the federal government is going to                                                                
let them use expenditures the state made in support of the 1998                                                                 
disaster that were not reimbursed to make up that community match.                                                              
The Department of Community and Regional Affairs is also going to                                                               
reprogram unused loan funds that the federal government had given                                                               
them for individual loans to fishermen, and this will help meet the                                                             
$1.5 million match.  As a result, those projects should begin this                                                              
year.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. POLAND indicated that DCRA was involved, along with the                                                                     
Department of Commerce and Economic Development, with a loan                                                                    
program for individual fishermen.  A little over $1.5 million was                                                               
originally designated for that purpose, and, basically, any                                                                     
fisherman can get a loan for $1000 by simply applying.                                                                          
Approximately 500 fishermen took advantage of that opportunity, and                                                             
those individuals had to dedicate their permanent fund dividend to                                                              
assure payment of the loan.  Mr. Poland informed the committee,                                                                 
"There are a couple of other relatively minor grants that were a                                                                
function of that original $7 million secured by [U.S.] Senator                                                                  
Stevens, and that included some monies for fisheries research, a                                                                
little less than $500,000, and for looking at economic alternatives                                                             
out there.  Those funds are being matched either by some kind of                                                                
local government or by the organization which secured the grant,                                                                
and those are all in place and going at the moment."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CAROL CARROLL, Director, Administrative Services Division,                                                                      
Department of Military and Veterans Affairs (DMVA), explained her                                                               
department's role in the disaster relief.  She reiterated that the                                                              
legislature felt that no special session was needed to be called;                                                               
however, at that time, the Disaster Relief Fund was empty.  A loan                                                              
was obtained from the general fund by means of the supplemental                                                                 
process, and DMVA went out into communities to take applications                                                                
for the Emergency Living Expense Program.  This program gave                                                                    
eligible individuals living in that area payments of approximately                                                              
$1,400 to be used for fuel, food, electric and other bills.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARROLL provided the committee with a spreadsheet titled,                                                                   
"Western Alaska Fisheries Disaster", that showed exactly how the                                                                
$12 million disaster relief money was spent.  Approximately $8                                                                  
million was spent for the Emergency Living Expense Program, and a                                                               
portion was spent on fish purchase, processing and delivery for                                                                 
three communities (Hooper Bay, Chevak and Scammon Bay).  She                                                                    
reported approximately 6,000 individuals applied for the Emergency                                                              
Living Expense Program, and she thought roughly 5,500 were finally                                                              
eligible for the grant.  She summarized by stating, "We were the                                                                
operational portion of this disaster.  We provided the teams that                                                               
went out into the areas and took the applications, and we provided                                                              
the accounting and the ... operational methods for the money in the                                                             
Disaster Relief Fund.  We coordinated a lot with the other                                                                      
departments on which communities should be declared under the                                                                   
fisheries disaster, and I believe we relied on the Department of                                                                
Fish and Game for that type of information."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DIANA ALCANTRA, Recovery Manager, Division of Emergency Services,                                                               
Department of Military and Veterans Affairs, testified via                                                                      
teleconference from Fort Richardson.  The division provided credits                                                             
to vendors for specific categories of assistance:  food, fuel,                                                                  
water and sanitation.  To be eligible for this assistance, she                                                                  
explained, an individual had to live in the area, hold a commercial                                                             
license or crew permit, or be a cannery or process worker.                                                                      
Approximately $3 million was extended in the food category, $2.7                                                                
million in fuel, $1.8 million in electric, approximately $381,000                                                               
in water and $102,000 in sanitation.  These grants have been nearly                                                             
completed. The Division of Emergency Services is currently                                                                      
assisting DCRA in applying for a federal assistance program that                                                                
will mirror the Emergency Living Expense Program.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARROLL, in response to a question from Chair Hudson,                                                                       
confirmed that the state program was limited to state residents of                                                              
the affected area; however, federal monies were available to each                                                               
U.S. resident affected by the fisheries disaster in Western Alaska.                                                             
She indicated that the federal program money has not yet been                                                                   
received; although, she believed that they have received                                                                        
applications for the federal portion.  They also have a signed                                                                  
grant agreement with the United States Department of Agriculture,                                                               
but they have not yet received that fund.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. POLAND, in response to a question from Representative Kapsner,                                                              
reported that the principle problem with the affected communities                                                               
has been getting a financing plan solid enough to rely on, so they                                                              
can start ordering materials and get things in place, and to do so                                                              
in time with the rhythm of the season.  What happened in 1998, he                                                               
explained, was that the issue of a match did not become clear until                                                             
May of 1998.  The problems were largely solved by the latter part                                                               
of summer, and all of the communities are primed and ready to                                                                   
either complete or begin a project this spring.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARROLL, in response to an inquiry from Co-chairman Halcro,                                                                 
explained that regularly budgeted program funds are used first;                                                                 
however, disasters generally impact social problems, which results                                                              
in increased need for funding.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. POLAND, in response to a question from Representative  Kapsner,                                                             
explained that the reason only 500 people received a loan was due                                                               
to a lack of applications, as literally everyone who was eligible                                                               
that applied was approved.  The Department of Community and                                                                     
Regional Affairs estimated that the $1.5 million could have been                                                                
used up in its entirety by eligible applicants, had they chosen to                                                              
apply.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARROLL answered a question from Representative Dyson regarding                                                             
what the departments have learned from this experience to be better                                                             
prepared in the future.  She testified that the DMVA's operational                                                              
management of the disaster seemed to work amazingly well.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. POLAND added that there was no system in place to deal with a                                                               
situation like this, so people with good intentions were trying to                                                              
bend definitions and make systems work in the best way they could.                                                              
He said, "When you declare something in the fall in rural Alaska,                                                               
there is just no way, at best, that you are going to get a                                                                      
construction program going before next spring.  So, if your                                                                     
intention is really to get money into people's pockets, you                                                                     
probably ought to just write checks and stick them in the mail."                                                                
He agreed that things worked extraordinarily well, given the                                                                    
constraints in place; however, fixing the definitions for clarity                                                               
would improve things the next time.  He reported that federal                                                                   
officials have actually traveled out into rural Alaska this past                                                                
summer, and this has resulted in a major shift in flexibility and                                                               
responsiveness since they have gotten first-hand experience.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARROLL pointed out that DMVA does an "After Actions Report"                                                                
after every disaster, where they get together to discuss what they                                                              
could have done better and what worked well.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN HALCRO suggested that future instruction booklets                                                                   
include the special transportation problems that arise in rural                                                                 
Alaska, in an effort to facilitate the timely arrival of funds with                                                             
regard to seasons.  He asked for specifics regarding the efforts                                                                
made to educate affected individuals about loans and grants                                                                     
available to them.  Because seven or eight groups were dispersing                                                               
disaster aid funds, his concern was that someone who might have                                                                 
qualified for a specific type of loan might not have known that it                                                              
existed.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. POLAND explained that letters were mailed to every permit                                                                   
holder, but he was uncertain about crew members and cannery                                                                     
workers.  The Department of Community and Regional Affairs went                                                                 
through regional non-profit organizations to "get the word out."                                                                
He felt that the lack of applications could be attributed to the                                                                
fact that it was a relatively small amount of money and that the                                                                
individual's permanent fund dividend had to be dedicated to                                                                     
repayment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER felt, based on communications from                                                                       
individuals in her district, that the problem was not a lack of                                                                 
education, but more of a belief that these individuals would be                                                                 
getting further into debt.  She explained that these people have                                                                
the highest poverty level in the nation, and she asked, "Why would                                                              
a person, living under the poverty line, want to get into debt?"                                                                
She said that most of her constituents have already dedicated their                                                             
dividend funds to paying for electricity bills, buying                                                                          
transportation for the year, and other necessary things.  She                                                                   
summarized by stating, "I don't think it was a lack of education.                                                               
I think that they were just weighing the costs and benefits, and                                                                
the costs far outweighed the benefits to get a loan."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MORGAN pointed out that the average income for a                                                                 
fisherman in the Yukon river area before 1998 was $8,900; however,                                                              
it dropped to $2,800 by 1998.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON emphasized that it is important to measure how much                                                             
money actually goes to the end recipient and how much is involved                                                               
in administering the program.  The goal of doing this, he advised,                                                              
would be streamlining the process, in an effort to make more money                                                              
available to the people who need it, as opposed to the bureaucracy                                                              
or those hired to administer the disbursement.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. POLAND, in response to a question by Representative Joule,                                                                  
explained that the federal dollars are on the table, and that DCRA                                                              
is working with the granting agency - the U.S. Department of                                                                    
Commerce.  It is looking hopeful that they will get credit for                                                                  
expenditures the state made, particularly for the Emergency Living                                                              
Expense Program.  The communities will be short what the match                                                                  
would have been, he added, but they are hoping to use the balance                                                               
of the loan funds that were not used, approximately $900,000, to                                                                
make up a portion of that $1.5 million.  As a result, the net                                                                   
effect would be that the communities would have about $600,000 less                                                             
for their projects, but they will have the projects.  He explained                                                              
that their actual entitlement was based on the number of permit                                                                 
holders, and the match varied from $5,000 to $8,000 to over                                                                     
$100,000 in places like Bethel and Dillingham.  The Department of                                                               
Community and Regional Affairs looked at capital match, he                                                                      
reported, but the process involves getting the city council to                                                                  
declare the new project, bringing it to the legislature, and                                                                    
actually having the capital match appropriated for that particular                                                              
purpose.  In addition, all changes have to be approved by the U.S.                                                              
Department of Commerce, and, although they have tried to be very                                                                
responsive, it generally takes another 10 days to 2 weeks.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DOUG EGGERS, Chief Fisheries Scientist, Division of Commercial                                                                  
Fisheries Management and Development, Alaska Department of Fish and                                                             
Game (ADF&G), came forward to testify on scientific research                                                                    
regarding the fisheries disaster in Western Alaska.  He reported                                                                
that sockeye salmon runs have increased in Bristol Bay since the                                                                
late 1970's, and production has been at historically high levels                                                                
through 1996.  Salmon runs to the Yukon River have been relatively                                                              
stable, coho salmon has been increasing in the Kuskokwin River, and                                                             
chum salmon stocks have been more variable in the region.  Large                                                                
and unanticipated declines in salmon runs occurred throughout                                                                   
Western Alaska rivers in 1997 and 1998.  These declines may have                                                                
been caused or accentuated by unusual or localized weather                                                                      
conditions that occurred recently in the Bering Sea.  There is also                                                             
indication that there may be longer-term climate changes taking                                                                 
place in the North Pacific Ocean and the Bering Sea that would                                                                  
result in lowering future salmon productions.  Mr. Eggers explained                                                             
that climate change cannot be prevented, but there are things that                                                              
government, as stewards of the resources, can do to restore                                                                     
fisheries to anticipated changes in production, and to prepare                                                                  
those dependent on the salmon resources for those changes.  The                                                                 
long-term resource program was proposed to address the                                                                          
responsiveness of the state's harvest management and stock                                                                      
monitoring programs to change productivity.  Aspects of that                                                                    
responsiveness include being able to protect and manage fisheries                                                               
on weak salmon runs that occur during periods of decreased                                                                      
productivity.  The state also needs to evaluate the appropriateness                                                             
of current management policies in escapement goals during the                                                                   
regimes of lower productivity, and improve pre-season forecasts of                                                              
abundance for industry planning and establishing quotas for the                                                                 
South Alaska Peninsula June fisheries.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. EGGERS noted that monies have been made available to conduct a                                                              
fisheries research program and mitigate the disaster.  Research                                                                 
money will be used by ADF&G in implementing plans to focus on                                                                   
salmon stocks in the Alaska Peninsula area, Bristol Bay area,                                                                   
Kuskokwin and Yukon rivers.  He explained that key issues addressed                                                             
in the plan include:  understanding the fresh water production and                                                              
carrying capacity of the Bear Lake and Chignik Lake systems;                                                                    
understanding the fresh water production of sockeye salmon in the                                                               
Kvichak River system, which is the largest river system producer of                                                             
sockeye salmon in Bristol Bay; investigating smolt estimates, which                                                             
forecasts are based on; developing significant improvements in                                                                  
escapement assessment and management of Bristol Bay sockeye salmon;                                                             
developing assessments of total escapement of coho and chum salmon,                                                             
by age, for the Kuskokwin River system; and, finally, developing                                                                
assessments of total escapement of Chinook salmon and chum salmon,                                                              
by age, to the Yukon River.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. EGGERS pointed out that the ADF&G's strategy has not been to                                                                
rely on forecasts of salmon runs to manage fisheries.  They have a                                                              
large program to assess the abundance of salmon in season, so that                                                              
they are able to detect weak runs and react accordingly to protect                                                              
the potential for future productivity and escapements.  The                                                                     
department has fairly complete assessments of escapement and                                                                    
recruitment return, per spawner, in all of the Bristol Bay river                                                                
systems since 1956, and there have been periods of fairly poor                                                                  
productivity in the past that seem to be related to climate                                                                     
conditions in the North Pacific Ocean and Bering Sea.  He reported                                                              
that declines in productivity began to be noticed in Bristol Bay in                                                             
the late 1980's; unfortunately, there is a fairly long lag between                                                              
the time that reduced recruitment is seen and the time weak runs                                                                
are manifested, as sockeye salmon live to be six years old.  He                                                                 
summarized by stating that low escapements and low productivity                                                                 
produce very weak runs.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. EGGERS, in response to questions from Representative Dyson and                                                              
Chairman Hudson, defined recruitment as the production from                                                                     
escapement, or return per spawner.  This information has been very                                                              
useful in detecting the influence of ocean climate on fish                                                                      
productivity.  He noted that there was a period of lower ocean                                                                  
temperatures with fairly poor salmon productions in the 1950's and                                                              
1960's, but, in the mid 1970's, ocean temperatures went up and the                                                              
state entered into a period of higher activity.  He emphasized that                                                             
intense research and global-scale monitoring of ocean conditions is                                                             
very beneficial in establishing these trends of climate; however,                                                               
the Bering Sea is an area with high cloud cover, so sea surface                                                                 
temperatures and atmospheric pressures are the primary indicators                                                               
of climate in that area.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. EGGERS, in response to questions from Co-chairman Halcro,                                                                   
explained that the research they are proposing to do under the                                                                  
Disaster Mitigation Research Program strictly involves assessment                                                               
of adult escapement and returns, and monitoring productivity,                                                                   
particularly of sockeye salmon, in freshwater lakes.  There is also                                                             
some joint research proposed with the Russians to look into the                                                                 
legal driftnet fishery in the Russian zone, in an effort to assess                                                              
the level of interception of North American salmon, particularly of                                                             
the Bristol Bay and Western Alaskan fisheries.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
TOM KRON, Arctic-Yukon-Kuskokwin Regional Supervisor, Division of                                                               
Commercial Fisheries Management and Development, Alaska Department                                                              
of Fish and Game testified via teleconference from Anchorage.  He                                                               
stated the response teams that visited Hooper Bay, Chevak and                                                                   
Scammon Bay learned very interesting information from some elderly                                                              
ladies in that area.  These women were of child-bearing age during                                                              
the 1950's, and they could remember a time "when the salmon did not                                                             
come."  The winter food was gone, the salmon did not come, and the                                                              
seals that followed the salmon did not come.  Those ladies talked                                                               
about how they had lost their milk, and their babies had died.                                                                  
They recounted that, since that time, the salmon have always come                                                               
and they have had food.  He also noted that the winds were                                                                      
different than normal off the Yukon River mouth this past year, and                                                             
that the fish did not come through there on their usual migration                                                               
pattern.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON wondered how information was gathered about the                                                                 
open ocean pressures and weather conditions, and Mr. Eggers                                                                     
explained that there is an active research and enforcement activity                                                             
coordinated by treaty with the North Pacific Fishery Management                                                                 
Council.  Boats in Canada, Russia and the United States actively                                                                
cooperate in surveillance of illegal driftnet fisheries on the high                                                             
seas.  He noted that there is a lot of research activity going on                                                               
currently, specifically involving the distribution, migration and                                                               
feeding habits of salmon, and the federal government is supporting                                                              
that research.  Marked salmon released from hatcheries provide a                                                                
good tool for identifying the origin of the fish in open ocean                                                                  
distribution, and that research is ongoing.  He explained that they                                                             
are trying to understand reasons for downturns of productivity, and                                                             
the long-term objective is to be able to anticipate such weak                                                                   
returns in their management activities.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRON noted a few observations of the Yukon River Chinook salmon                                                             
were signs of classic environmental stress.  The numbers were down                                                              
considerably - the smallest Chinook salmon run, and the lowest                                                                  
commercial harvest on the Yukon River since statehood.  In                                                                      
addition, the fish were smaller than average, and the heads were                                                                
larger in relation to their body size.  There were also concerns of                                                             
internal and external health issues.  He cited an internal muscular                                                             
fungus as an example.  There were also very high instances of                                                                   
lamprey bites and other multiple bites that were unhealed.  The                                                                 
fish were not in good shape.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Kron whether he heard any of the                                                                 
anecdotal reports of net-marked fish, even in Area M.  Mr. Kron                                                                 
replied that wasn't something he saw on the Yukon and Kuskokwim                                                                 
Rivers.  Mr. Eggers noted that he has heard instances of net-marked                                                             
fish, but it is difficult to differentiate [those types of marks]                                                               
because they are caught with gillnets.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said that elders in the Naknek area have seen                                                              
more belugas laying in the shallow waters of the Kvichak River, and                                                             
asked Mr. Kron whether something like that was reported in the                                                                  
other rivers or estuaries.  Mr. Kron replied that he saw exactly                                                                
the same thing on the Yukon River.  The last time a large number of                                                             
marine mammals, both seals and belugas, came into the Yukon River                                                               
was in 1993 when there was the chum salmon disaster.  This year                                                                 
there were a large number of belugas and seals entering the Yukon                                                               
River and he has heard similar reports for the Kuskokwim River.  It                                                             
seemed that the seals were having a tough time and were following                                                               
the salmon right up into the rivers.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Kron whether he may infer that                                                                   
belugas collecting and feeding is the result of the crash rather                                                                
than a cause of it.  Mr. Kron replied there is some of both.  The                                                               
locals indicated that the marine mammals were following the fish to                                                             
find dinner.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said a few years ago the Alaska Department of                                                              
Fish and Game harvested belugas and found hundreds of smolt.  He                                                                
asked Mr. Kron whether it's his understanding that belugas feed on                                                              
mature salmon and not smolt.  Mr. Kron replied it is his                                                                        
understanding that they feed on both adults and smolts.  Mr. Eggers                                                             
replied there could be an increased aggregation of beluga whales.                                                               
The National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) and others have been                                                               
monitoring the population of belugas and found that they have been                                                              
fairly stable in Western Alaska.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MORGAN noted Mary C. Pete [Director, Division of                                                                 
Subsistence, Department of Fish and Game] indicated that everybody                                                              
met their subsistence needs in the Kuskokwim area which is                                                                      
primarily from king salmon.  The target fish for commercial fishing                                                             
are chum and silver.  Ironically, those types are down in the                                                                   
rivers like the Kuskokwim.  Mr. Kron stated in 1997 for the first                                                               
time there was a cooperative appeal to the subsistence users along                                                              
the entire length of the Kuskokwim River to attempt to save chum                                                                
salmon spawning grounds.  The Chinook salmon harvest was fine.                                                                  
However, in late 1997, the coho salmon run failed.  In 1998, the                                                                
Chinook salmon run was down, while the chum and coho salmon runs                                                                
were up.  Some areas and species are doing better than others, but                                                              
a lot of the problems have been centered around the Bering Sea.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE asked Mr. Kron about the spawning conditions                                                               
and what the people should expect for the next cycle.  Mr. Kron                                                                 
replied the failures on the Yukon and Kuskokwim Rivers were totally                                                             
unexpected.  In particular to the Yukon River, there have been very                                                             
good escapements and conditions for Chinook salmon, summer and fall                                                             
chums, and the department was expecting a good return.  But, it                                                                 
didn't happen.  In 1998, the department thought it was looking at                                                               
a relatively good return, but was below.  The future is a good                                                                  
question.  Staff has indicated that they are nervous about the                                                                  
projections that they are putting out because they have been wrong                                                              
in the past.  In term of next year's return, the stocks are coming                                                              
off of the 1995 winter which was harsh.  In addition, in spite of                                                               
the actions taken, the escapements have been very poor.  In 1997,                                                               
the escapements for chum were considerably down for the Kuskokwim                                                               
River.  Similarly, Chinook, summer and fall chums were down on the                                                              
Yukon River, in spite of no commercial fishing for fall chum and                                                                
subsistence restrictions.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said last year there were indications of a                                                                 
lack of confidence in information from False Pass and the Port                                                                  
Moller test fishery.  Mr. Eggers replied they have always been                                                                  
uncertain indicators because of variations and vulnerabilities.  In                                                             
1997, there were high catches at Port Moller, but the weather                                                                   
conditions were very good for fishing.  The industry suffered from                                                              
those projections and errors in forecasts because they make                                                                     
business decisions based on them.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked Mr. Eggers whether he will be in                                                                   
charge of the research this summer and what is on the agenda.  Mr.                                                              
Eggers replied he will be organizing the staff responses.  The                                                                  
money for the Disaster Mitigation Research Program will be                                                                      
available on July 1 from NMFS.  It is unlikely that anything will                                                               
"be in the water" for this fuel season, however.  It is a                                                                       
three-year program.  The plan is for fuel studies in fiscal years                                                               
2000, 2001 and 2002.  Mr. Kron indicated that the study is in the                                                               
formative stages, but the intent is to continue and expand upon the                                                             
cooperative programs in the areas.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SMALLEY asked Mr. Eggers whether there has been any                                                              
cooperative research with foreign countries to determine whether                                                                
they are suffering as well.  Mr. Eggers replied the salmon runs in                                                              
Russia have been declining in the last several years, and Japanese                                                              
hatchery runs have been lower.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SMALLEY asked Mr. Eggers, in looking at those                                                                    
studies, whether Alaskan fish are showing up in foreign locations.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. EGGERS replied it is the department's intent to engage in                                                                   
cooperative research with Russian scientists to collect genetic                                                                 
data from their stocks and to get samples from catches in Japanese                                                              
fishery vessels.  He will be attending bi-lateral meetings in the                                                               
near future with the Russians at which time these issues will be                                                                
discussed.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE asked Mr. Kron whether he is aware of any                                                                  
unusual patterns of salmon being caught further north than                                                                      
Kotzebue.  Mr. Kron replied he has heard reports of subsistence                                                                 
fishers around the Barrow area of larger than normal catches of                                                                 
King salmon.  There have been warmer temperatures in the Bering Sea                                                             
and the fish could be moving further  north.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE stated he has heard that just about every                                                                  
species was available out of Barrow and Point Hope.  He wondered                                                                
whether the salmon were coming in late.  Mr. Kron noted that the                                                                
department saw a number of late returning Chinook salmon on the                                                                 
Yukon River.  Fall chum salmon were about 10 days late on the Yukon                                                             
River.  In a number of systems, where there are a large number of                                                               
spawning stocks, there are some fish coming in under the ice.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Mr. Eggers whether there are any residual                                                                 
indications of the Exxon Valdez oil spill in Cook Inlet for                                                                     
example.  Mr. Eggers replied that Western Alaskan salmon were not                                                               
impacted by the Exxon Valdez oil spill.  The department has no                                                                  
indication of any effect of the spill on salmon, even for pink                                                                  
salmon, which have been monitored after the oil spill, the                                                                      
department has seen minimal effects.  Mr. Eggers further said that                                                              
the climate cycles are persistent and we could be entering an era                                                               
of low salmon runs as seen in the late 1970's and 1980's.  Mr. Kron                                                             
noted in terms of looking into the future that the ice of the                                                                   
Bering Sea is further south than ever before.  In addition, the                                                                 
department saw large blooms of coccolithophores in 1997 and 1998.                                                               
Currently, there is a bloom at the leading edge of the Bering Sea                                                               
ice.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Mr. Eggers what is the furthest north that                                                                
Atlantic salmon have been recovered.  Mr. Eggers replied there was                                                              
a report of an Atlantic salmon taken in the Bering Sea.  It was                                                                 
probably a stray from British Columbia.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said that the largest by-cath in British                                                                   
Columbia waters is Atlantic salmon.  Southeast waters is a good                                                                 
environment for them.  He expects the population to bloom.  Mr.                                                                 
Kron noted in the late 1980's, when the Canadians first started to                                                              
put Atlantic salmon in their net pens, there were many statements                                                               
of concern of them spawning in the streams and getting out of their                                                             
pens.  This is an example of the adaptability and impressiveness of                                                             
a biological organism.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE asked Mr. Poland, as the result of two                                                                     
consecutive poor seasons, whether he has any indication that                                                                    
permits are being sold.  Mr. Poland replied the department doesn't                                                              
have any indication that they are being sold other than heresy.                                                                 
Mr. Kron noted that the impact on infrastructure two years in a row                                                             
means people will be going out of business.  The price of salmon                                                                
has also been down.  In the Kuskokwim area, there has been a                                                                    
significant decrease in permits as a function of its value and the                                                              
run size.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE commented that there are other fisheries in                                                                
the state where an emergency has not been declared where the stocks                                                             
are suffering.  He cited the chum salmon in the Kotzebue Sound as                                                               
an example.  He hopes that those areas will be included in the                                                                  
studies as well.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON AND CO-CHAIRMAN HALCRO adjourned the joint meeting                                                              
between the House Special Committee on Fisheries and the House                                                                  
Community and Regional Affairs Standing Committee meeting.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
NOTE:  The meeting was recorded and handwritten log notes were                                                                  
taken.  A copy of the tape(s) and log notes may be obtained by                                                                  
contacting the House Records Office at 130 Seward Street, Suite                                                                 
211, Juneau, Alaska  99801-2197, (907) 465-2214, and after                                                                      
adjournment of the second session of the Twenty-first Alaska State                                                              
Legislature, in the Legislative Reference Library.                                                                              

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